[the shift back comes as a relief, and jack finds it that little bit easier to relax again. to let go of some of that tension, despite the way the conversations leans. he knows, to his very core, that castiel is good. that he means safety, and love, and home in a way that no others ever will. but, if lucifer is telling the truth-
does that mean that castiel is really possessing a human too? who is he, and why would he do it? why would he hold a human captive like that?
...why did god design them that way?]
I'm...just me. I was born. And then I grew up.
[look, lucifer changed back. that means he gets at least one of the answers he's looking for.]
If you could...have another body. Would you leave Sam alone?
[not his, of course. he already knows how badly that idea would be received by castiel and sam]
[Well, that's not all that usefull. Born and just grew up, huh? Better than nothing. But what on earth does that make this boy? He's distracted from his thoughts from the question, and quiets for a moment, biting his nail.]
... If I could... perhaps, yes.
If I could find a body that could house me without ripping it apart over time. It would be unfortunate if someone suffered and lost their body because of an angel, wouldn't it?
[He shrugs uselessly.]
But even if I could move between bodies anymore... I doubt Sam would let me loose enough that I could leave. You know him — you know he tries to protect people. A very noble trait, but it leaves options... terribly limited.
[he feels like there's a piece missing. the reason why sam would say yes to lucifer in the first place. if the angel needed sam to exist on earth, then surely saying no would mean that lucifer would never be free. that he'd still be trapped in hell.
he can't keep the frown on his face as he looks away, gaze slipping off towards the expanse of darkness that surrounds them. there's a subtle shift then, the darkness slowly bleeding away as shapes begin to form. as walls slip in to existence. corridors and rooms. furniture. lucifer may not know what it is, but it's the only home he's ever known. so being stood here, in the middle of the library- it helps.]
...how are you fixing your earth?
[it's back to curiosity again. to that need to learn more about a subject before he makes his own opinion. as easy as it may be to defer to sam's lead, he knows he can't do that all the time. mistakes happen, even if he wished otherwise.]
Trying to protect people from me? He should have been protecting himself from people. People like Dean Winchester. Like Castiel. They all broke his spirit and heart, Jack. They all hurt dear ol' dad.
[It's of course unfair. Mistakes were made, sure — mistakes that were easy for Lucifer to spin his own way, mold into a half-truth that implies the worst. Making Jack question his family... it only seemed natural to Lucifer. Besides, couldn't go letting the kid sit in an echo chamber, right?
He sits back against the bunker table's edge, looking around and whistling.
Nice place. Very homely.]
... I've hurt people, yes. I don't think there's a soul around you who hasn't... I won't lie to you, Jack — I've killed people. Killed people who wanted to kill me. [He looks to Jack.] People who blamed me for all their problems. Who wanted me dead. People who didn't want me to repair the planet.
Selfish, cruel people.
Tell me — should I have been more like Sammy?
Should I have let people strike me down? Apologize while they aimed their pistols at my head? [He stands up, walks towards Jack with a frown. He extends a hand for Jack to grip, patiently. All it would take is a touch, and then — then Jack could see with his own eyes. And Lucifer can twist and twist and twist that narrative to his heart's content, knowing every moment he uses as an excuse was true.] Do you want to see what some of the people I killed did? So you can understand why? See how I tried to keep Sam safe, year after year?
[at some point he knows he needs to point out that sam isn't actually his dad. at least not by birth. but he knows that will only lead to more questions. and there's still one answer that he can't give. not without disappointing sam in the process.
so instead, he stands there in silence. just listens as lucifer continues to try and clarify his position in all this. despite sam's warnings, both of theirs, there's still a part of him that really does welcome this opportunity. this chance to speak to a version of his father who, for now, is unaware of their connection. he knows so little about the archangel that isn't overlaid with the hatred that the winchesters hold for him. so being able to form his own opinions- it's too important for him to ignore it.
it's only when the questions come, when a hand is offered, that jack is finally spurred in to action. but it's only the tightening of his hands in to fists. that clear refusal to take that hand, even without words. as curious as he may be by all lucifer has to show him, he doesn't trust him. so he isn't ready to take that final step. yet.]
You should have stayed. In Hell. You've...hurt Sam. You've killed people. They. Only want to hurt him, because of you.
But he just frowns calmly, like Jack's made little sense in his refusal.]
I should have been forced into an eternity of imprisonment, just because I didn't want to bow down to human beings? Does the punishment fit the crime, Jack?
I just wanted freedom.
Would you begrudge any being their longing to be released from a cage? [His lip curls, eyes dimming with discontent.] Their very small cage that their own family forced them into. So long, sayonara, you're not one of us anymore. But Sam freed me, and I've always been grateful to him. I've always wanted to give him everything for it.
[He steps closer, his gaze soft.]
I know nothing about your Lucifer, but me?
I'm indebted to Sam. I care very deeply about him. Just as you do.
You don't have to believe it. I'm used to the skepticism.
[It's not a lie. Sam Winchester is, truly, his fondest... creation. Born from the things Lucifer's made with his own hands. Someone he has no urge to cut ties with; made for Lucifer; the perfect vessel that earns the closest thing to empathy Lucifer can employ, because aren't they just so alike?
[which leads to a whole other question. if god made the angels the way they are, did he know that lucifer would fall? was it all part of his plan?
...is that the only reason that he was ever born?
but rather than let himself continue on down that path, jack only watches curiously as lucifer approaches. sure, he should probably be keeping that distance between them. he can't trust the angel. but if this is all a dream, he knows that he can just wake up if he has to. that none of this will mean anything when he climbs out of bed again. physically, at least.]
Sam...freed you. But. Now you're using him. You're hurting him. You can't. Stay in him.
I'm using what was offered to me. We had a deal, and Sam needs to be an adult and accept that.
Besides... I can't leave. I'm locked in. Sam Winchester won't let me out; he thinks I'm a danger to everyone in the town. Why do you think I'm speaking to you through a dream? Even if you convinced me to skip town on Sam Winchester's body, it doesn't mean he'll let me loose.
[he refuses to accept that. refuses to believe that sam would ever willingly agree to something like this. clearly there has to be more to the story. has to be a real reason why he and dean weren't together. why castiel would let something like this happen. but he knows getting those answers, the real ones, is going to be an impossibility. nobody from their world seems to want to talk to him about any of it. not without putting their own spin on the truth.]
If there was someone else...that you could use. Would you leave him?
[because if that's the sticking point, there's at least something they can work with. surely the other dean and castiel would want to convince sam to let him out. they just need to find someone else who can contain him. long enough to-
well, not kill him. no matter how he feels towards lucifer, the idea of killing the angel isn't something he wants to consider. it isn't a decision any of them should be allowed to make.]
If Sodder and Sam allowed me to actually leave? Sure, I could try. Maybe I'd hop on over to a more appreciative vessel. One that isn't keeping me prisoner because he's decided to have a teenaged rebellion at age 30.
[He shrugs, not particularly convinced that Jack could align any of those stars anyway.]
... You sure seem to care a lot, though. About what this Sam Winchester does. About his circumstance. [He cocks his head to the side, brow furrowed.] I can appreciate someone who cares about Sam almost as much as I do. Someone who just wants to help.
You see, I want to give Sammy the world.
He just hasn't seen the full picture yet, of how great it'll be. Dean and Castiel, his parents, his family and friends... I could make a paradise for him, when it's all said and done. I could give him everlasting peace.
I owe him for the gifts he's given me.
[Is he being honest?
... He would rather not answer. The thought of it is beautiful though, isn't it? Lucifer casting mercy on a few humans, so Sam could have an oasis in the middle of heaps and heaps of human bones?]
But I'm sure you doubt me right now, with things as they are.
But that's what Heaven is meant to be for. Isn't it?
[for humans, at least. so why keep sam a prisoner for all this time? unless- does sam saying yes to lucifer mean that he's going to hell? that doesn't make any sense, as far as he's concerned. sam is good, and he isn't to blame for anything that lucifer did while in his body.]
Humans don't need you to...fix their world. God created it. If...he wasn't happy, he'd. Do something about it. It's not your job.
[but then, from what little he knows about lucifer- both versions -that's never stopped him from intervening anyway. from causing conflicts and relishing in the aftermath.
from killing others. killing mary. killing castiel-]
If you cared about Sam, you'd leave him alone. He doesn't need you.
God doesn't care, kid. God flew the coop and he's not going to lift a finger to help any of the people you love. Sorry to say, but I have to speak the — well. The God's honest truth.
I'm not even sure if Heaven's functioning anymore, where we're from...
But trust me when I say: Sam needs me more than you know.
After all, an archangel leaving a human body? It doesn't always end so well for the vessel. Even one tailor-made for them. The strain that could have on him... [He looks back at Jack, smiling a little.] This must be Sam and Dean's place of residence in your world, hmm?
[He runs a finger along the edge of the bunker's main table. Across Sam and Dean's initials.]
I see they're still as sentimental as when they were children.
[while he does hear everything that lucifer says, there's one part he ends up getting stuck on. the idea of sam getting hurt during the attempts to get lucifer out of him. he doesn't know enough about angels yet to know if there's a way to stop that. a way to protect sam long enough for him to leave. but if anyone knows a way, it's castiel. he has to.
when he finally draws his attention back again, jack stares down at the table, his head tilting as he tries to get a closer look of his own. to make sure that lucifer isn't doing anything to those brands. it may be a dream, but the bunker is still sam and dean's home. so he has to protect it.]
I've...only known them for a month. But. I think this building belonged to someone else. Before.
[not that he's spent much time exploring the bunker yet. dean's already made it clear his presence isn't entirely appreciated.
his gaze slips away from the table and back to lucifer again. his curiosity is back, of course. only this time, it's less to do with sam, and more-]
Why did you fall? Why didn't you just...talk to God, and tell him...how you felt?
... Do you really think I didn't talk to him? Tell him how I felt?
I was ejected from Heaven and cast into Hell for not wanting to bow down to humans... for not loving them more than my family, like he'd wanted. I was punished just for wanting the free will to choose who I loved.
If you want to cast blame to anyone, look to God. Always look to God.
[His jaw works, and a flash of genuine emotion dances across his face.
Disappointment. Betrayal. Disgust.]
He wanted it to be this way. He wanted 'the Devil'.
But. That doesn't mean you have to be...who he wants you to be.
[just like jack knows he won't be the same monster that everyone else expects him to become. but while he has sam to support him in that, has castiel to talk sense in to him when his self-belief starts to wane, he doesn't know who lucifer had. if he even tried to prove god differently.
maybe...he just needs somebody to believe in him too?
there's a set of voices that start to echo from down the corridor at that thought. a conversation that ends in words he'd needed to hear not too long ago. in knowing that he wasn't alone in wanting to become better than the world expected of him. the context may be different here, the history far more expanse than either his or sam's. but the message still remains the same. lucifer has always had the choice to be who he wants to be rather than who the world thinks he is. he just needs to try.
assuming, of course, that he even wants to.]
You killed people. Humans...and angels. You didn't have to do that. You don't have to hurt anyone if you don't want to.
[It takes Lucifer a world of effort not to roll his eyes at the conversation from the corridor. Really, he should be given an award for it. Sammy's good, but it's not the Sam he's wanting — he wants the angry one, the one tainted and powerful and compliant. He wants the boy with the demon blood he'd personally shaped.
And anyway, family is a sham. Family turns on you. Family drives a spear through your very being for daring to think differently about humans — the equivalent of ants being fumigated.]
And you think Castiel hasn't killed humans or angels?
[His voice is soft, as if his heart aches for the boy.]
You think Sam and Dean haven't killed? Caused deaths? They're hunters, Jack. They spent a lot of their lives killing beings without even knowing if they were actually deserving of death. But... it doesn't make someone evil to have to kill. Nothing is ever so gray.
[After a moment, he cocks his head to the side, glancing away in the distance — toward a farmhouse some miles away — and frowning.]
I'm afraid my time is running thin; Sam is having a nightmare, and I really should get back in time to soothe it.
[he knows that sam and dean are hunters. that they kill things for a living. monsters that're out to hurt others. he understands that, and he agrees. even dean's threats against him are ones that jack can't fault him for. he'd even go as far as to thank him for it if he really did end up following in his father's footsteps.
the comment about castiel though-
his gaze slips away as he tries to gather his thoughts, the rest of the words washing over him and ignored entirely. castiel is an angel. is good. he fought to protect him and his mother. to protect the winchesters. humanity. so, why would he...kill other angels? why would he hurt a human?
by the time he opens his mouth to respond though, lucifer's final words sink in, and jack only nods. the hurt is there, glaringly obvious through his own inexperience at hiding his emotions. but he tries his best to power through it. to just force out one, last question.]
Can I...speak to you again? Later?
[though not too soon. he still needs to work through everything that lucifer's said first]
[Lucifer gives pause as he moves to leave, looking back.]
... Of course, Jack. Anything for the Son of Sam.
[Anything of that ilk. Poor kid, being labeled a Winchester; don't you know, that's just a recipe for disaster? He cocks his head to the side, studying Jack — his essence — for a moment, and then finds himself content enough this day.]
All you need to do is pray.
I'll hear you, and I'll know just when to return to your dreams.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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does that mean that castiel is really possessing a human too? who is he, and why would he do it? why would he hold a human captive like that?
...why did god design them that way?]
I'm...just me. I was born. And then I grew up.
[look, lucifer changed back. that means he gets at least one of the answers he's looking for.]
If you could...have another body. Would you leave Sam alone?
[not his, of course. he already knows how badly that idea would be received by castiel and sam]
no subject
... If I could... perhaps, yes.
If I could find a body that could house me without ripping it apart over time. It would be unfortunate if someone suffered and lost their body because of an angel, wouldn't it?
[He shrugs uselessly.]
But even if I could move between bodies anymore... I doubt Sam would let me loose enough that I could leave. You know him — you know he tries to protect people. A very noble trait, but it leaves options... terribly limited.
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[he feels like there's a piece missing. the reason why sam would say yes to lucifer in the first place. if the angel needed sam to exist on earth, then surely saying no would mean that lucifer would never be free. that he'd still be trapped in hell.
he can't keep the frown on his face as he looks away, gaze slipping off towards the expanse of darkness that surrounds them. there's a subtle shift then, the darkness slowly bleeding away as shapes begin to form. as walls slip in to existence. corridors and rooms. furniture. lucifer may not know what it is, but it's the only home he's ever known. so being stood here, in the middle of the library- it helps.]
...how are you fixing your earth?
[it's back to curiosity again. to that need to learn more about a subject before he makes his own opinion. as easy as it may be to defer to sam's lead, he knows he can't do that all the time. mistakes happen, even if he wished otherwise.]
Have you...hurt people?
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[It's of course unfair. Mistakes were made, sure — mistakes that were easy for Lucifer to spin his own way, mold into a half-truth that implies the worst. Making Jack question his family... it only seemed natural to Lucifer. Besides, couldn't go letting the kid sit in an echo chamber, right?
He sits back against the bunker table's edge, looking around and whistling.
Nice place. Very homely.]
... I've hurt people, yes. I don't think there's a soul around you who hasn't... I won't lie to you, Jack — I've killed people. Killed people who wanted to kill me. [He looks to Jack.] People who blamed me for all their problems. Who wanted me dead. People who didn't want me to repair the planet.
Selfish, cruel people.
Tell me — should I have been more like Sammy?
Should I have let people strike me down? Apologize while they aimed their pistols at my head? [He stands up, walks towards Jack with a frown. He extends a hand for Jack to grip, patiently. All it would take is a touch, and then — then Jack could see with his own eyes. And Lucifer can twist and twist and twist that narrative to his heart's content, knowing every moment he uses as an excuse was true.] Do you want to see what some of the people I killed did? So you can understand why? See how I tried to keep Sam safe, year after year?
no subject
so instead, he stands there in silence. just listens as lucifer continues to try and clarify his position in all this. despite sam's warnings, both of theirs, there's still a part of him that really does welcome this opportunity. this chance to speak to a version of his father who, for now, is unaware of their connection. he knows so little about the archangel that isn't overlaid with the hatred that the winchesters hold for him. so being able to form his own opinions- it's too important for him to ignore it.
it's only when the questions come, when a hand is offered, that jack is finally spurred in to action. but it's only the tightening of his hands in to fists. that clear refusal to take that hand, even without words. as curious as he may be by all lucifer has to show him, he doesn't trust him. so he isn't ready to take that final step. yet.]
You should have stayed. In Hell. You've...hurt Sam. You've killed people. They. Only want to hurt him, because of you.
no subject
But he just frowns calmly, like Jack's made little sense in his refusal.]
I should have been forced into an eternity of imprisonment, just because I didn't want to bow down to human beings? Does the punishment fit the crime, Jack?
I just wanted freedom.
Would you begrudge any being their longing to be released from a cage? [His lip curls, eyes dimming with discontent.] Their very small cage that their own family forced them into. So long, sayonara, you're not one of us anymore. But Sam freed me, and I've always been grateful to him. I've always wanted to give him everything for it.
[He steps closer, his gaze soft.]
I know nothing about your Lucifer, but me?
I'm indebted to Sam. I care very deeply about him. Just as you do.
You don't have to believe it. I'm used to the skepticism.
[It's not a lie. Sam Winchester is, truly, his fondest... creation. Born from the things Lucifer's made with his own hands. Someone he has no urge to cut ties with; made for Lucifer; the perfect vessel that earns the closest thing to empathy Lucifer can employ, because aren't they just so alike?
It's like looking into a mirror.
Oh, yes.
And he has no intention of cutting him loose.]
no subject
[which leads to a whole other question. if god made the angels the way they are, did he know that lucifer would fall? was it all part of his plan?
...is that the only reason that he was ever born?
but rather than let himself continue on down that path, jack only watches curiously as lucifer approaches. sure, he should probably be keeping that distance between them. he can't trust the angel. but if this is all a dream, he knows that he can just wake up if he has to. that none of this will mean anything when he climbs out of bed again. physically, at least.]
Sam...freed you. But. Now you're using him. You're hurting him. You can't. Stay in him.
no subject
I'm using what was offered to me. We had a deal, and Sam needs to be an adult and accept that.
Besides... I can't leave. I'm locked in. Sam Winchester won't let me out; he thinks I'm a danger to everyone in the town. Why do you think I'm speaking to you through a dream? Even if you convinced me to skip town on Sam Winchester's body, it doesn't mean he'll let me loose.
[Hmmm.]
Unless you have some genius plan to free me?
no subject
If there was someone else...that you could use. Would you leave him?
[because if that's the sticking point, there's at least something they can work with. surely the other dean and castiel would want to convince sam to let him out. they just need to find someone else who can contain him. long enough to-
well, not kill him. no matter how he feels towards lucifer, the idea of killing the angel isn't something he wants to consider. it isn't a decision any of them should be allowed to make.]
no subject
[He shrugs, not particularly convinced that Jack could align any of those stars anyway.]
... You sure seem to care a lot, though. About what this Sam Winchester does. About his circumstance. [He cocks his head to the side, brow furrowed.] I can appreciate someone who cares about Sam almost as much as I do. Someone who just wants to help.
You see, I want to give Sammy the world.
He just hasn't seen the full picture yet, of how great it'll be. Dean and Castiel, his parents, his family and friends... I could make a paradise for him, when it's all said and done. I could give him everlasting peace.
I owe him for the gifts he's given me.
[Is he being honest?
... He would rather not answer. The thought of it is beautiful though, isn't it? Lucifer casting mercy on a few humans, so Sam could have an oasis in the middle of heaps and heaps of human bones?]
But I'm sure you doubt me right now, with things as they are.
I can't fault your assumptions.
no subject
[for humans, at least. so why keep sam a prisoner for all this time? unless- does sam saying yes to lucifer mean that he's going to hell? that doesn't make any sense, as far as he's concerned. sam is good, and he isn't to blame for anything that lucifer did while in his body.]
Humans don't need you to...fix their world. God created it. If...he wasn't happy, he'd. Do something about it. It's not your job.
[but then, from what little he knows about lucifer- both versions -that's never stopped him from intervening anyway. from causing conflicts and relishing in the aftermath.
from killing others. killing mary. killing castiel-]
If you cared about Sam, you'd leave him alone. He doesn't need you.
no subject
I'm not even sure if Heaven's functioning anymore, where we're from...
But trust me when I say: Sam needs me more than you know.
After all, an archangel leaving a human body? It doesn't always end so well for the vessel. Even one tailor-made for them. The strain that could have on him... [He looks back at Jack, smiling a little.] This must be Sam and Dean's place of residence in your world, hmm?
[He runs a finger along the edge of the bunker's main table. Across Sam and Dean's initials.]
I see they're still as sentimental as when they were children.
no subject
when he finally draws his attention back again, jack stares down at the table, his head tilting as he tries to get a closer look of his own. to make sure that lucifer isn't doing anything to those brands. it may be a dream, but the bunker is still sam and dean's home. so he has to protect it.]
I've...only known them for a month. But. I think this building belonged to someone else. Before.
[not that he's spent much time exploring the bunker yet. dean's already made it clear his presence isn't entirely appreciated.
his gaze slips away from the table and back to lucifer again. his curiosity is back, of course. only this time, it's less to do with sam, and more-]
Why did you fall? Why didn't you just...talk to God, and tell him...how you felt?
no subject
I was ejected from Heaven and cast into Hell for not wanting to bow down to humans... for not loving them more than my family, like he'd wanted. I was punished just for wanting the free will to choose who I loved.
If you want to cast blame to anyone, look to God. Always look to God.
[His jaw works, and a flash of genuine emotion dances across his face.
Disappointment. Betrayal. Disgust.]
He wanted it to be this way. He wanted 'the Devil'.
And so he cast me out.
no subject
[just like jack knows he won't be the same monster that everyone else expects him to become. but while he has sam to support him in that, has castiel to talk sense in to him when his self-belief starts to wane, he doesn't know who lucifer had. if he even tried to prove god differently.
maybe...he just needs somebody to believe in him too?
there's a set of voices that start to echo from down the corridor at that thought. a conversation that ends in words he'd needed to hear not too long ago. in knowing that he wasn't alone in wanting to become better than the world expected of him. the context may be different here, the history far more expanse than either his or sam's. but the message still remains the same. lucifer has always had the choice to be who he wants to be rather than who the world thinks he is. he just needs to try.
assuming, of course, that he even wants to.]
You killed people. Humans...and angels. You didn't have to do that. You don't have to hurt anyone if you don't want to.
no subject
And anyway, family is a sham. Family turns on you. Family drives a spear through your very being for daring to think differently about humans — the equivalent of ants being fumigated.]
And you think Castiel hasn't killed humans or angels?
[His voice is soft, as if his heart aches for the boy.]
You think Sam and Dean haven't killed? Caused deaths? They're hunters, Jack. They spent a lot of their lives killing beings without even knowing if they were actually deserving of death. But... it doesn't make someone evil to have to kill. Nothing is ever so gray.
[After a moment, he cocks his head to the side, glancing away in the distance — toward a farmhouse some miles away — and frowning.]
I'm afraid my time is running thin; Sam is having a nightmare, and I really should get back in time to soothe it.
no subject
the comment about castiel though-
his gaze slips away as he tries to gather his thoughts, the rest of the words washing over him and ignored entirely. castiel is an angel. is good. he fought to protect him and his mother. to protect the winchesters. humanity. so, why would he...kill other angels? why would he hurt a human?
by the time he opens his mouth to respond though, lucifer's final words sink in, and jack only nods. the hurt is there, glaringly obvious through his own inexperience at hiding his emotions. but he tries his best to power through it. to just force out one, last question.]
Can I...speak to you again? Later?
[though not too soon. he still needs to work through everything that lucifer's said first]
no subject
... Of course, Jack. Anything for the Son of Sam.
[Anything of that ilk. Poor kid, being labeled a Winchester; don't you know, that's just a recipe for disaster? He cocks his head to the side, studying Jack — his essence — for a moment, and then finds himself content enough this day.]
All you need to do is pray.
I'll hear you, and I'll know just when to return to your dreams.
... Hope you have pleasant ones, 'til then.
[He's gone afterward, in the blink of an eye.]